Paulo De Mitri@paulogdm
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clarify future support of docker on now platformNovember 8, 2018 at 6:21pm
It seems zeit is moving away from allowing customers to utilize Docker as a common 'primitive'; would you kindly clarify this?
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November 9, 2018 at 6:19pm
November 9, 2018 at 6:19pm
I didn't realize this thread was happening here and was commenting on HN, but here are my thoughts. I am sure there are business, strategy or technical reasons for Zeit to announce this, but I hope they reconsider the support for Serverless Docker.
I work for a large media organization and we recently subscribed to a paid account and I have been moving over many of our internal projects like prototypes, design systems, vendor collaboration projects over to now. Now 1.0 is an awesome place to host these projects and possibly, we could have used Now in future for graduating some of our consumer facing projects. Currently, all our consumer facing projects are launched on our standardized AWS/Fastly infrastructure, where we have support for VMs, Containers and Lambdas.
The primitives of Docker are more standardized and cross-platform enough to support the above workflow. Using npm builders from isn't practical for us. Even though we are heavy node users, we are unlikely to switch over to serverless paradigm for many of our workloads anytime soon. Like others mentioned, it is certainly a no go for many of our PHP and Java projects. Additionally, using the now builders is a lock-in from our standpoint that we want to avoid.
I think if the Serverless Docker option will continue to be available in future, it makes sense for us to continue investing in Now based workflows. I am not a fan of using the alternatives in the form of AWS Fargate or equivalents from GCP or Azure
I truly love you guys, but the decision to abandon Docker is just killing me. I get when you say things like "We have no intention of shutting Now v1 down any soon". But announcing something like this in the way you did is just leaving me gutted.
I know not all customers are going to like product decisions. Sometimes you need to alienate a few customers to appeal to a broader audience. I do think we deserve a little more explanation and reasoning behind this decision. I mean and here you guys were in April standing on stage and advocating a Docker first strategy with such a passion and commitment. Now 8 months later you are ready to move docker to legacy system. I mean... what happend here?
When a company moves to a relatively new service, it often a big deal. Lots of stakeholders need to convinced and pros and cons are endlessly debated. There are always a lot of naysayers who want to invest in a more "proven technology"... well today I just feel like I just got a big reality check.
Love what said: "I think the biggest flaw here was the naming of Now 2.0 and how you presented it".
I think there should be a future for containers under Now. What I would suggest is to keep v1.0 under the "Now Docker" product name and move v2.0 under the "Now Lambda" name. I think having both options available can be awesome going forward. Spin up a quick Lambda to get some small project going. Use a container for a more complex setup where a simple builder isn't going to cut it. I think that would be cool.
Anyway thats my suggestion, hope you guys have a few minutes for a long time supporter.
I'm trying Azure Pipeline right now, the assistant auto detected my Dockerfile, got a green build with webpack build, docker build (nginx) and e2e tests without even looking at the doc (yet) still have to (auto) deploy it, but native dockerfile support is there, so far I had to do 0 modification to my application code
Have you guys seen (https://zeit.co/docs/v2/platform/upgrade-to-2-0):
NOTE: v1 is fully maintained and supported. We will only announce a deprecation date once we have ensured all our customers workloads are migrated and the tooling is in place for a smooth transition.
So v1 is destined to end at some point.
It would be really great if someone from the Zeit team could comment on this issue. reading through this thread there are several use cases that just don’t align well with the lambda model and even if now‘s stance is that this is the way forward it would only be fair to people in need of other use cases to bring clearity if now will be a viable option for them in the future.
I want to re-assure everyone that we are 100% confident that this is the right direction for the platform. We wouldn't call this 2.0 if I wasn't deeply convinced that is is the future of deployment and code execution.
It's true that *some* use cases are still not addressed, which is why we didn't just phase out v1. We are working on a lot of very exciting features, builders and integrations that I'm confident will make all your web applications work great on Now 2.0.
We have been exploring the tradeoff space between processes and functions, containers and lambdas, for a long time. We understand the problem extremely well, and we have seen and learned first hand what scales and what doesn't.
How about websocket over lambda ? I would be happy to refactor a monothlic to lambda, as soon as it supports websocket connection. Thanks.
we are investing quite a bit into our Python builder right now, as a matter of fact. We have a lot of good news coming for the python community :)
Here's the kind of interesting thing. Now is a unique company in that we're never going to lower the bar of ambition. We think we can give you the best of both worlds: ease of use and planet-wide scalability.
Throughout a journey like this, you'll find that some initial assumptions sometimes need to be tweaked.
In this case they're being tweaked so that you never worry about your next app taking over the world and dealing with billions of requests per day.
Please don't forget the Apollo community :D I know you guys have a lot to handle right now, but we were super excited to host everything on now. I hope with get more details on this new approach on the coming weeks
I meant it when I wrote in the blog post that my main priority is to address all the customer workloads perfectly.
I also wouldn't be calling this 2.0 if we had to reject entire classes of interesting applications.
And I'm happy to jump on a call with any teams that need further reassurance.
I am sorry. I must be missing something. What does this mean exactly? "00% confident that this is the right direction for the platform"? Does this mean you do not believe that docker is a good tool for production deployments? The only alternative interpretation I can make, is that the Zeit Now platform has many more non-docker than docker deployments, and then, it makes sense from Now's perspective, but it also means a "hard goodbye" to anyone seeking docker builds.