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ZEIT / Now

clarify future support of docker on now platform

clarify future support of docker on now platform

ZEIT/Now · November 8, 2018 at 6:21pm

clarify future support of docker on now platform

ZEIT / Now · November 8, 2018 at 6:21pm
It seems zeit is moving away from allowing customers to utilize Docker as a common 'primitive'; @rauchg would you kindly clarify this?
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November 9, 2018 at 3:25am

The Now 2.0 PHP builder is simply useless for modern PHP development. We don't do "one file per endpoint" for years and this practice is extremely discouraged in the PHP community nowadays due to the difficult to share common behavior (e.g middlewares) between multiple entrypoints.

Even if you add support for multiple PHP files by doing static analysis, it won't be able to detect dynamic dependencies that are resolved in runtime (e.g command handlers).

Also, with this new PHP builder we don't have any control over the language extensions that are installed and the php.ini config. We have zero control over the environment, this is like getting back to 2000s shared hosting providers.

I think the biggest flaw here was the naming of Now 2.0 and how you presented it. You could simply name it "now lambdas" or something that does not imply that it is going to replace Now 1.0 Docker deployments, because it is far from being a good replacement the way it is.

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November 9, 2018 at 5:07am

Given v2, what now is the recommended way to deploy a starlette.io application or a Flask app? If I understand things correctly, Docker support is going bye-bye ... so where does that leave us folks who enjoyed the ease of deploying such dockerized application with a single command in the terminal?

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So this means after

1. coming from now without docker support, where i could not build ELM projects (because the used container had problems)

2. I got into the happy land of configuring my own docker container and finally being able to build ELM projects

3. We are back to no control over the container and we also got a lock in...

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November 9, 2018 at 7:08am

This is frustrating to hear. I have spent so much time trying to get my projects running on Zeit. There are still some issues left, but now all that work seems wasted. Will there ever be possible to deploy stuff like Craft CMS on Zeit? Or will this purely be for custom apps where you can control everything?

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November 9, 2018 at 9:20am

The Now 2.0 PHP builder is simply useless for modern PHP development. We don't do "one file per endpoint" for years and this practice is extremely discouraged in the PHP community nowadays due to the difficult to share common behavior (e.g middlewares) between multiple entrypoints.

Even if you add support for multiple PHP files by doing static analysis, it won't be able to detect dynamic dependencies that are resolved in runtime (e.g command handlers).

Also, with this new PHP builder we don't have any control over the language extensions that are installed and the php.ini config. We have zero control over the environment, this is like getting back to 2000s shared hosting providers.

I think the biggest flaw here was the naming of Now 2.0 and how you presented it. You could simply name it "now lambdas" or something that does not imply that it is going to replace Now 1.0 Docker deployments, because it is far from being a good replacement the way it is.

The difference between feeling excited and anxious (adding features / changing features). I'm not familiar enough with devops to really understand these changes yet. But I do feel anxious about running an Apollo stack on now, uh.. now.

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November 9, 2018 at 10:42am

Uh... my first thought when I read "Now 2.0" was: "I really hope they do not drive it against a concrete wall...". After reading into it I'm in fear that this might really happen for me. "cloudified Docker" support was one of the key points for me. I've even used Now in examples of several of my print articles to easily deploy some Docker-ized stuff. I planned to convert some JAMstack projects over to Now... but without Docker I do not see how I could run this Rust-code. I really hope that this isn't the end of "Now" as we know it.

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Here I am exited as a kid to read the new blog post about Now 2.0. Lets see what the awesome guys at Zeit have in store for us.

Wait... what?! What just happened? Did I miss something?

I honestly thought this would be the announcement of Serverless Docker coming out of beta with the full feature set. Maybe some new features announcements and migration guides for older docker images and node applications.

Boy, was I not expecting this.

Only in august, just 3 months ago, you guys announced Serverless Docker. I was like f*ck yeah this is awesome. Simple docker files for everything. Sub 500ms container startup. Max concurrent requests. Optimised docker images. Running tests as part of your build process. Static deployments using a Docker file. No vendor lock-in. I remember thinking to myself: Dude, this is what the future looks like. And now we are going back to lambdas all over again.

I just think its strange that a flagship feature announced 3 months ago is now just brushed aside. Like "We thought a lot about containers for the past 3 year... and lambdas are superior". Okey, thanks for the update...

You guys probably have your reasoning and I am curious to find out. Maybe its the technical limitations or the feasibility of a business model based on Docker containers. I don't know... from a developer/customer point of view I honestly feel like you guys just took a step backwards.

Edited
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November 9, 2018 at 12:17pm

Serverless is a DevOps centric developer unfriendly paradigm. I'm certainly not moving to Serverless. I suppose I'll have to look at other hosting options. Very disappointing.

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November 9, 2018 at 1:18pm

We literally just yesterday decided that we would switch our docker containers to now.sh after a week of experimenting and testing. Now after this announcement this makes the new service and any future of using it much more dubious. For our infra we already have pretty good serverless lambda support when we need it via the https://serverless.com/ framework.

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The timing could not have been worse :/

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Unfortunately I couldn't move one of my applications to the serverless paradigm even if I wanted to—I am rendering SVGs server-side and depend on fonts and other binaries to be installed. Docker was the perfect solution and Now's docker hosting was great.

Does anybody in this thread know of any alternatives that provide a similar service to Now v1 docker?

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Unfortunately I couldn't move one of my applications to the serverless paradigm even if I wanted to—I am rendering SVGs server-side and depend on fonts and other binaries to be installed. Docker was the perfect solution and Now's docker hosting was great.

Does anybody in this thread know of any alternatives that provide a similar service to Now v1 docker?

I will be checking out the Docker support at Digital Ocean. https://www.digitalocean.com/products/one-click-apps/docker/

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Unfortunately, Digital Ocean's offering, the One-Click-Docker, is nothing more than pre-installed Docker and Docker Compose :/

Is there no one else in this space that has something like a docker swarm hosted model + dns + loadbalancing?

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Agreed, I tried DigitalOcean last night and, yea, still have to setup SSL, SSH, etc..

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Have you guys tried Dokku? http://dokku.viewdocs.io/dokku/

It's essentially an open source Heroku, worked great for me in the past

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I was refraining myself from asking the question, but have no other response yet from Zeit regarding docker, I think we can share alternatives to other people in this thread..

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Thing is I don't even want to have to SSH into a VM

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nvm, no real native support for scalingo, maybe https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/build-docker-images-heroku-yml heroku then..

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Well.... no more Docker on now is terrible news, at least I see I am not the only one who thinks that. Not everybody likes Lambdas, and Lambdas are not suitable for all use cases. As much as I like Now 1.0. if this decision stands, I am starting to look for alternatives tomorrow.

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Did anyone try Hyper.sh ? they seem to embrace the Docker UX

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I have tried Hyper.sh - although it is close to Now, I liked it much less. But given the docker ban, it might be a good fallback option.

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