Paulo De Mitri@paulogdm
Show previous messages
clarify future support of docker on now platformNovember 8, 2018 at 6:21pm
It seems zeit is moving away from allowing customers to utilize Docker as a common 'primitive'; would you kindly clarify this?
Show more messages
November 9, 2018 at 10:02pm
November 9, 2018 at 10:02pm
not at all proprietary, and not at all specific to our cloud
Meaning: it's just another API, like Stripe
thx for answering some questions here and shedding some light on the motivation to move to a lambda future for Now.
My last thoughts on this.
In terms of scalability your absolutely right lambda functions do scale very well. But you know what also scales really well? An index.html file on a cdn. The reality of real world applications is that there is often loads of complexity to deal with. As much as we engineers try to push back on the requirements there is often just no way around that.
Many of us have been to lambda land and saw it was not as elegant and graceful as it's often portrait in hello word examples. Maybe you guys can change that.
When you say: "We will provide good alternatives for the vast majority of use cases that are hard in a lambda environment." I really believe you and I think you and your team of awesome engineers will do a great job at that. But in this statement there also lies the problem. You will never be able to cater to everyone's needs. That's just what I liked so much about your "docker as a primitive" vision for cloud computing. You guys just needed to get really good/fast at orchestrating and optimizing docker containers and anything could be done on the service.
Building such a system, as you guys did, is probably hard as hell but I could not agree more with : "why the rush to get rid of serverless docker? It is still an amazing product, that has a massive competitive advantage over any other offering I've seen!"
I was so delighted to see all these new examples in the repository. Who ever thought we would be able to deploy Wordpress on Now. I just felt like you guys were really on to something revolutionary... and now you are just one of many.
Sorry if I sound harsh but you must understand that such a dramatic shift in the product direction is going to leave some customers/fans disappointed about the future of product. Than again, disappointing customers sometimes exactly what you have to do to achieve your vision.
I will try to move a few of my personal projects to v2. The company wide decision to move to Now is of the table for now.
Are there any other providers that allow you to upload a Dockerfile? Besides heroku? I don't know if I ever plan on moving to a serverless model. I could wrap my express app with
/node-server, but I'm not sure that would provide out-of-the-box support for websockets.
I'm not certain, at this point, if my entire app that I've built on express and FeathersJS would ever jive with serverless architecture. I feel it'd be a major rewrite.
I don't get it. So with Docker, I can write and app, put it on now, or Digital Ocean, or if the client demands it, run Docker on their physical server in office, or unwrap what is in the Docker container and run it the old way on a real machine without the container...
With the new Now Lambda, I cannot do that. It will be suck require it to be hosed on NOW's platform. Surely, I can move it around on the cloud provider you guys support (AWS, GCE), but there is no way to deploy it to other standalone server / computers?
I was referring to the idea that if there was some sort of wrapper that turns my plain Python Flask app into a Now-compatible web app, i.e. it analyzes the routes in my Flask app and "magically" exposes each route as a standalone function that can be served through Lambda, then I'd write my Flask app as always, write a Dockerfile as always for on-premise (or generally non-Now) deployment, and deploy it on Now with the wrapper.
Hyper.sh is the closest to the (old-) Now model, but as far as I know they require you to have an image stored in some registry before you can launch it there.
I get the idea and even though i wont go in that direction your expertise is propably right that this is the cheapest and best way to move forward. But however good it might be, it is still a lockin. It does not matter that i can choose where to distribute it behind the scenes. I can move a docker setup to wherever i want, even my own servers if i need to. With the new v2 this is a different story, it sounds way more locked in. And i kind of lost a good amount of trust atm. Maybe thats unfair and i am wrong. Actually i hope i am wrong 😕
this is very concerning 🤔
Ok guys - so I know it is not exactly polite to discuss other services in a chat that belongs to Zeit Now, but since Zeit is dressing nicely with its Lambda dress, for what I believe is a strategic move to get the attention of Amazon's acquisition team, and since it looks Docker will be gone forever from Now sometime soon, I feel obligated to share the results of my search for alternatives.
- Hyper.sh : even though it shares similarities to Now, it is much less user friendly. You need to worry about IPs and instance sizes, and the deployment process is quite painful and long. I managed to make it work, sometimes. One huge downside, is the fact that you need to have a docker image in DockerHub. After playing with it I cannot recommend it as an alternative, but it may still appeal to some people I guess.
- Docker on Heroku : I am a long time user of Heroku, using non-containerized applications. I just tried deploying one of my docker test apps to Heroku, and it was very easy and smooth, and even free. If anyone of you decides to go that route, I hope to save you some time by saying this: The only change you probably need to do to your Dockerfile, is to ensure your `CMD` uses the `$PORT` environment variable. This is the variable provided by Heroku, and the `EXPOSE` directive is ignored by Heroku.
I have been using Docker in Google Cloud Container Service / Kubernetes, aside from the initial setup, everything has been flawless and I haven’t had any downtime in the last 3 months, pricewise, it is similar to Now v1
on demand version of now v1
How is the SSL configuration and aliasing of domains to instances? Those are things Now does quite well -- pretty easy to setup on GCP? I also feel a little bad discussing this on Zeit's forum, but it sounds like V2 won't fully do what V1 was capable of, so it's reasonable discussion to be had.
i think they just need to find a way to ”promote” the docket support of v1 into v2 so that the community knows we can count on Zeit to conti support Docker along side whatever cool and better stuff they are trying to push on it now. Given the current state of Docker and container hostings, i think Zeit will be missing out a lot should they decide to drop it completely.